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October 21, 2005
Sure, Fatima Can Be Ameerah...

by Gillette aka Hassan[uddin] Khaja

This was not intended to be an attack against any specific sister(s) named Fatima. I long ago concluded that I didn't know any sister named Fatima who could be offended by this, so I used it. I found out that there was one, but considered it bad style to change it. The use of any name is bound to offend someone.

...when she's willing to call non-Muslims to tawheed (not interfaiths, fast-a-thons, and community service initiatives)
...when she's willing to call Muslims to the sunnah (not to facial hair and hijabs)
...when she acknowledges that "women's liberation" is code for "women's liberation from Allah (Ta'ala)."
...when she can fill in the blanks:

"Hold on to the rope __ _____ together, and do not differ amongst yourselves" (Ali Imran 3:103).

...when she knows that drinking is better for one's eman than slandering the Sahabah.
...when she stops using "Islam is in the heart" as an excuse to sin.
...when she covers her face when talking to men, not because it's obligatory, but because the wives of the Prophet did so.
...when she finds a scholar of the past who said that reasons to leave the house aren't restricted to the masjid and necessity.
...when she accepts that if a kaafir dies rejecting Islam, he's going to hell.
...when she's willing to admit that Imam Al-Bukhari was a more knowledgeable muhaddith than Amina Wadud.
...when she stops believing that the Taliban and Bin Baz were devils-incarnate because they didn't let women leave the house or drive.
...when she can quote Ibn Hajr's interpretation of the hadith, "Women were created from a rib."
...when she comes to grips with the fact that the story of the woman correcting Umar is not authentic (according to Bayhaqi).
...when she makes the dead hear.


of and relating to...
saima said

I don't get the last one ..."when she makes the dead hear"

on October 21, 2005 8:52 PM
gillette said

that's supposed to be the more islamic equivalent of "when pigs fly."

"Indeed, you can't cause the dead to hear, nor can you cause the deaf to hear the call when they turn back in retreat."

(An-Naml 27:80)

on October 21, 2005 9:16 PM
Talal said

MashaAllah...

the fire is going to rain down on this one.

on October 21, 2005 9:17 PM
Saad said

ASsalamu Alaikum

Although i agree with some of your points, i feel that if this is your idea of giving Dawah, than it is not the correct way it, Walalhu Alam. We are commanded in the Qur'an to Call to Allah using Hikma, i feel these type of articles are not wise and will only turn the people you are addressing further away to what you are calling them to.

Wallahu Alam

on October 21, 2005 11:50 PM
Rashid said

It sounds to me like someone is trying to make a man out of a female.

on October 21, 2005 11:55 PM
Rami said

Asalaam Aleikum Warahmatullah Wabarakatu,

You could have substituted 'He' for about 75% of these.

"...that the Taliban... didn't let women leave the house or drive."

...or have an education (aka, go to school).


on October 22, 2005 3:34 AM
Rashid said

let me put it this way, was this article not met to directed towards a man instead of a woman?

on October 22, 2005 3:37 AM
Rashid said

i mean "let me put it differently".

on October 22, 2005 3:37 AM
Rashid said

"let me put it differently, was not this article supposed to be directed towards a man instead of a woman? who is Fatima anyway?

on October 22, 2005 3:38 AM
jinnzaman said

Bismillah.

Assalamu alaikum

Although I understand that the author was making use of literary devices, I find it offensive that Amina Wadud and Imam Bukhari can even be placed in the same sentence. Amina Wadud is neither a muhaddith nor a scholar, let alone of the caliber and piety of Imam Bukhari.

Also, Amina Wadud is definitely not a mujtahid, so her fiqh opinions are ultimately irrelevant.

masalama

on October 22, 2005 4:57 AM
gillette said

"ASsalamu Alaikum

Although i agree with some of your points, i feel that if this is your idea of giving Dawah, than it is not the correct way it, Walalhu Alam. We are commanded in the Qur'an to Call to Allah using Hikma, i feel these type of articles are not wise and will only turn the people you are addressing further away to what you are calling them to.

Wallahu Alam"

I think you think I'm addressing people who disagree with me. Rather, I usually address people who agree with me, and I just frame it in a different light.

It's interesting to note that people frequently mention that HidayaOnline.com is an offensive website that isn't conducive to da'wah. However, they usually only refer to writing that I wrote 1 year ago, or 2 years ago.

Additionally, I'm only one columnist, and people have come and gone.

(Please post a link to a column that could be construed as remotely offensive that I didn't write).

However, the fact that the "offensive" material is in the minority - and that HidayaOnline.com is a beneficial website for all when people recognize this - usually means little when one's whims and desires have been given free reign, and the intellect has been subdued. Logic and reason can't exist with whims and desires. This was the main thrust behind the ISRU-HidayaOnline.com separation.

on October 22, 2005 6:06 AM
Asher said

Assalamu Alaikum,

"I think you think I'm addressing people who disagree with me. Rather, I usually address people who agree with me, and I just frame it in a different light."

Agreed that there are many loyal and dedicated members of the hidaya family.

And I think discussion is great especially amongst the members of this family.

And there is definitely understanding among all of the members, what the ethics of disagreement are, and everybody realizes the purpose of such a forum.

And it's even understandable that others (who may or may not comment, and may not be part of the "family") who object to some of the writing have their reasons for feeling as such, and may even justify it, which they have a right to.

And of course, (I hope) the purpose of everyone's writing is to (please Allah) and to teach people some lessons.

Although br. gillete does say he is addressing those that agree with him, he seems to be dismissing the fact that others who don't agree with him also read hidayaonline.

It should be safe to say, that if one believes something to be correct, he/she would want other Muslim brothers and sisters to share in that belief, for verily one does not believe until he wishes for his brother what he wishes for himself.

on October 22, 2005 10:59 AM
Asher said

oops...

I'm assuming, (br. gillete, correct me if I'm wrong) that you and anyone else would like to advise our Muslim brothers and sisters and make sure that they take heed to such advice (when it's based on the proofs, of course), and especially, when one stands firmly by the advice being given.

If that is the case, then of course we as da'ees, should keep kindness and gentleness in mind.

For verily Allah addresses His Prophet (peace be upon him) in Sura Al-Imran verse 159:

"And had you been severe and harsh-hearted, they would have broken away from about you."

And it is imperative for the one giving dawah to have a likeable personality.
And the scholars have commented:

Imaam Bukhari has a chapter in his Sahih: To be gentle and polite with the people.

Imaam al-Aynee said: "Having a likable character and personality (as regards to the one calling to Islam) means being kind and gentle to the ignorant one who is covered with disobedience until he is able to turn him around." -Umdatul Qaaree

This however is not to say that one should compromise or over-compromise (ie, if one meets an open sinner, he makes friends with him and never disapproves of his behavior, or neglecting matters of the deen because it may displeases them, etc)

But there is a difference between being gentle and over-compromising.

Imaam ibn Battaal said:
"Being gentle and polite is from the noble manners of the believers and it means lowering the wing of mercy to the people, being gentle in speech, and not speaking harshly to them."

on October 22, 2005 11:52 AM
Asher said

So the issue(from the dawah perspective) does not reside in addressing those that are familiar with a certain writing style or even with those that understand what the author is suggesting; but rather the issue concerns those that view it in a harsh manner.

Because in the tafsir of the verse quoted above,
As-Sayyid Muhammad Rasheed Rida said:

"That is because severity and harsh heartedness are character traits that people are unable to tolerate and drive people away no matter how numerous the virtues of the severe and the harsh hearted one may be. Instead people will break away from around him and leave him all alone even if it means that they lose out on something that they would have benefitted by being around him. As a result they miss whatever guidance you could have given them and your da'wah doesn't reach their hearts."

And of course there are circumstances when one has to move away from kindness, (but that's another point)

And kindness and gentleness are traits that we all are in dire need of, So may Allah increase us in that and keep us holding firm to His rope. Ameen.

And once again, anyone is free to write what they choose, however I posted this with the assumption that everyone writes with the intent of dawah and guidance. (after all the website is named HIDAYAonline)

(I had much time on hand at work today)

Assalamu Alaikum,
asher

on October 22, 2005 11:53 AM
gillette said

Allahu 'Alam, it's unrealistic to think that one could write or even teach in such a way that EVERYONE can derive maximum benefit. This is by virtue of the fact that different levels need different knowledge.

on October 22, 2005 12:20 PM
asef said

Salaam:

"And kindness and gentleness are traits that we all are in dire need of, So may Allah increase us in that and keep us holding firm to His rope. Ameen."

JazakumAllah Khairan for this Duaa.

We all need this (some more than others), like myself.

Ma'Assalaama

on October 22, 2005 1:12 PM
Asher said

Agreed...

The intended audience and the knowledge that is being propagated and the method is left in the hands of the author. Thus if a forum were privately operated, (members only), this would not be an issue.

However, in the public domain one cannot expect that no one shall have a dissenting opinion/feeling (not to suggest that hidayans expect this). And this is because of the different levels of knowledge.

And of course the author should not be concerned (to an extent) if no one takes the time to clarify issues, if any.

However the problem arises when an author attempts to sincerely advise/give dawah to an individual who already views the author as harsh and rough, and thus this harms the one who needs the da'ee.

Granted that the bias is not warranted, however is not the one who is knowledgable (ie the da'ee) supposed to exceed in manners than the one who is ignorant (of such matters)?

Nevertheless, utilizing a little gentleness never hurt anyone, (except, in carrying out hudood, or against the stubborn, etc)

Aish'ah (radhi allahu anha) said the Prophet (sallala hu alayhi wasallam) said:

"Kindness is not to be found in anything but that it adds to its beauty and it is not withdrawn from anything but it makes it defective." -Muslim

Btw, I am not passing judgment as to whether this article is kind or not.

on October 22, 2005 1:31 PM
gillette said

(Not that I'm ignoring the previous discussion, but I found a valuable book)

This book is a complete translation of a small booklet entitled, "Clarifying the Evidence in Referencing and Verifying the Hadeeth, 'There is no 'Itikaaf except in the Three Mosques'"

In this brief discussion, the author presents the references and grading of the hadeeth, "There is no 'Itikaaf except in the Three Mosques" through a discourse on the hadeeth's narrators and sources. He also alludes to point of benefit drawn from the discussion on the verification of the hadeeth and presents the readers with advice concerning 'Itikaaf.

'Itikaaf is an important topic, especially in this month of Ramadan, due to the many blessings and rewards contained within it. The matter of it being legislated in just the three mosques, i.e. Masjid Al-Haram in Mecca, Masjid An-Nabawi in Medina, and Masjid Al-Aqsa in Jerusalem, or in every mosque in which the Friday Prayer is established is an issue that has long been in debate. However, through the presentation of the evidence in this treatise, it is hoped that the readers may gain insight on the correct position with regard to this tremendous act of worship. It is also hoped that this book will aid the one who reads it into preserving and abiding by the sacred practice of Islam, by which one's heart grows attached to the masjid and the servant dedicates himself entirely for a specified amount of time to the service and worship of his Lord.

http://www.al-ibaanah.com/cms/pdf_files/62.pdf?PHPSESSID=0bb0a40cecac4592958fcf7676878e53

on October 22, 2005 2:06 PM
Rashid said

""Nevertheless, utilizing a little gentleness never hurt anyone, (except, in carrying out hudood, or against the stubborn, etc)''

May Allah forbid that i enounter an ignorant man trying to implement this and seeing me as stubborn.....i do not think i would have the patience for that right now.

on October 22, 2005 5:58 PM
Rami said

Asalaam Aleikum Warahmatullah Wabarakatu,

What's up with the fast-a-thon? '

no flyers?
no announcments?

Will Sheikh Estes be there? Islam Fayoumi?

Someone else?


What's going on?!

on October 22, 2005 7:29 PM
Ibtisam said

if in fact, you are saying Fatima is all of the following, then she will probably not even be an ameerah, or want to be an ameerah?

As far as niqaab goes, I did not really understand that...there is an opinion that niqaab is fardh, offcourse, you would follow the wives of the Prophet SAW.

on October 22, 2005 8:11 PM
Amani said

Asalaam Aleikum Warahmatullah Wabarakatu,

"What's up with the fast-a-thon? '

no flyers?
no announcments?

Will Sheikh Estes be there? Islam Fayoumi?

Someone else?


What's going on?!"

Seriously...less than a week away and no details. I need to tell people more than "It's on Friday and it's at Cook".

on October 22, 2005 11:31 PM
Talal said

I don't have any updated info about the event, but the pledge form is up at
http://muslims.rutgers.edu

I encourage everyone to get the nonMuslims you know to participate. Sponsors will be donating based on the number of people who pledge to fast, so let's take things to a whole new level bi idhnillahi ta'ala.

on October 23, 2005 12:57 AM
faz said

assalamu alaikum,
just wanted to to say good luck with the fast a thon, sounds good. Will the participants be raising money for charity? we did something similar last week at our university and alhamdolillah it went quite well. The usual comment was that more than hunger, it was the thirst that was harder to withstand.. there was one guy though who said he regularly fasted anyway coz he liked the 'feeling'... subhanAllah.

Anyway, good luck with it. let us know how it goes.
ma'assalamah

on October 23, 2005 11:33 AM
Salika said

From what I understand with the line "when she makes the dead hear" (ie, the Islamic equivilent of "when pigs fly"), you are saying that a woman can never be amirah.

At the end of the day, from the perspective of sharia, you have not provided any evidence for a woman to not be amirah and this is nothing but your personal opinion.

And let us say theoritically you have provided Islamic proofs, your points presented are irrelevent.

on October 23, 2005 1:02 PM
Ibtisam said

At the end of the day, theoretically ALL AMERICANS say women can be leader, give substantial proof of an American woman being a President of USA.

No wise people will choose women as their leaders, why should Muslims be brainwashed to do the stupid thing.

on October 23, 2005 1:14 PM
Salika said

On what basis are you saying it is stupid? Because Americans are yet to have a president? What does that have to do with anything? Whatever happened with "we don't use the standards of the kuffaaar".

There is no basis of not chosing someone to be amirah... the only bar on women being leaders is the the khalif but historically speaking women have been governors.

on October 23, 2005 1:24 PM
cool guy said

Ibtisam you speak with such wisdom!

Im so stupid, all this time I thought we were supposed to respect & honor our women, since the Prophet (s) said "Paradise lies under the feet of mothers"...

i also thought the word "stupid" commonly used by those with nothing more intelligent to say

subhanAllah, sister Salika, you must not respond with the truth any longer, only great leaders respond this way!

on October 23, 2005 3:12 PM
Rami said

Asalaam Aleikum Warahmatullah Wabarakatu,

I'm going to get alot of heat for this but O well:


Sahih Bukhari
Volume 9, Book 88, Number 219:

Narrated Abu Bakra:

During the battle of Al-Jamal, Allah benefited me with a Word (I heard from the Prophet). When the Prophet heard the news that the people of the Persia had made the daughter of Khosrau their Queen (ruler), he said, "Never will succeed such a nation as makes a woman their ruler."


Sahih Bukhari
Volume 5, Book 59, Number 709:

Narrated Abu Bakra:

During the days (of the battle) of Al-Jamal, Allah benefited me with a word I had heard from Allah's Apostle after I had been about to join the Companions of Al-Jamal (i.e. the camel) and fight along with them. When Allah's Apostle was informed that the Persians had crowned the daughter of Khosrau as their ruler, he said, "Such people as ruled by a lady will never be successful."

on October 23, 2005 4:01 PM
asef said

Salaam:


What does "Ameerah" mean here?
president of MSA and Ammerah of a Qabeelah?
OR is it a female President/Prime Minister of a nation?

Now in my personal view, this is how I see this:

As humans, women and men have the ability to function, contribute and be part of a social setup both as a leader and as a follower.

So on an individual level, both male and female are able to make pragmatic, sound and calculated judgement in any sphere of life that they may find themselves in...Yes this is a fact of life, and that is how Allah has made us.

So Leadership, to me, is defined by an individual who steps up to the plate with the core theme of facilitating good for the rest of the group...be that person a man or a woman.

Now if most of us agree with this basic premise, then we can take this point a notch higher and expand on the topic of roles/responsibilities of a leader in any given situation....(to be continued), Insha'Allah.

on October 23, 2005 4:06 PM
asef said

Salaam:

JazakumAllah khairan Br. Rami for posting the Hadeeth of RasulAllah (sal-lal-la-hu-wa-sal-lam).

This is exactly where I am building towards with the roles/responsibilities of a leader in my upcoming comments, Insha'Allah.

on October 23, 2005 4:10 PM
gillette said

This is less about women leading a da'wah organization and more about what a leader of a da'wah organization should be doing. However, there's is basis for women not being leaders.

1 – Evidence from the Qur’aan:

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allaah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means”

[al-Nisa 4:34]

Al-Qurtubi said:

The words “Men are the protectors and maintainers of women” mean that they spend on them and protect them, and also that they (men) are the rulers and governors, and the ones who go on military campaigns, and none of these are the role of women.

Tafseer al-Qurtubi, 5/168.

Ibn Katheer said:

It means the man is in charge of the woman; he is her leader, the ruler over her who disciplines her if she goes astray.

“because Allaah has made one of them to excel the other” means, because men are superior to woman, and a man is better than a woman. Hence Prophethood was given only to men, as is the role of caliph, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “No people will ever prosper who appoint a woman in charge of them.”

Tafseer Ibn Katheer, 1/492.

2 –Evidence from the Sunnah:

It was narrated that Abu Bakrah said: When the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) heard that the people of Persia had appointed the daughter of Chosroes as their queen, he said, “No people will ever prosper who appoint a woman in charge of them.”

Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 4163.

Al-Shawkaani said in Nayl al-Awtaar, 8/305:

This indicates that women are not qualified to rule, and it is not permissible for people to appoint them as rulers, because they must avoid that which will cause them not to prosper.

Al-Maawirdi said, in the context of his discussion of the position of wazeer:

It is not permissible for a woman to play this role, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, “No people will prosper if they delegate their affairs to a woman.” And because these positions require wisdom and resolve, which women may be lacking in, and requires appearing in public to handle matters directly, which is haraam for them to do.

Al-Ahkaam al-Sultaaniyyah, p. 46.

Ibn Hazm (may Allaah have mercy on him) said, in the context of his discussion on the role of caliph:

There is no dispute that it is not permissible for a woman (to be caliph).

Al-Fasl fi’l-Milal wa’l-Nihal, 4/129.

In al-Mawsoo’ah al-Fiqhiyyah (21/270) it says:

The fuqaha’ are agreed that one of the conditions of the position of caliph is that the holder should be male. The leadership of a woman is not valid, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “No people will ever prosper who appoint a woman in charge of them.” That is also so that he will be able to mix with men, to devote his time solely to dealing with affairs of state, and because this position involves handling very serious matters. The responsibility is great and this is a man’s role.
...
1) This is proof that women shouldn't be appointed rulers. If we were to be literal about it, then we can say that it's restricted to ruling over nations. However, if we were to derive maximum benefit from the Sunnah, then we say that she can't be a leader over men, with the exception of course being the mother.

2) If you frame the matter of women leadership in light of the very first two issues that I mention in the article, then one might understand why a woman can't be a leader. Would she call to tawheed (and away from its opposite, shirk) in the face of controversy? Would she call to sunnah (and away from its opposite, bid'ah) in the face of controversy? Or would she pledge allegiance to the cry of "unity," and waffle under the pressure to please everyone, based on something other than the truth?

(This is more a challenge than anything else. I dare sisters who are remotely in charge of a da'wah organization to start calling to the shahaadah IN TRUTH i.e. calling to tawheed [laa ilaaha illallaah] and calling to the sunnah [muhammad ar-rasoolullaah], and calling away from the negations of the twain [shirk and bid'ah], as understanding the opposites of the two are crucial to a full understanding of the two themselves).

on October 23, 2005 4:18 PM
Salika said

I am aware of the evidence you pointed to, but like I said above, your points are still irrelevent. As many people already pointed out, most of this stuff could be applied to men as well. Are women the only ones who call people to shirk or something? Indeed, it is well known that women are not to be khulafa and no one is disputing that.

Secondly, you are not looking at the sunnah wholistically. There were times when the affairs were "delegated" to women. Read about the problem with the treaty of hudaybiyya. The Prophet sallalahu alayhi wa sallam sought the council of his wife, Umm Salama.

Ayesha radi Allahu 'anha was the leader in a battle and none of the sahaba had a problem with it.

As for your statement "This is proof that women shouldn't be appointed rulers. If we were to be literal about it, then we can say that it's restricted to ruling over nations. However, if we were to derive maximum benefit from the Sunnah.." Deriving the maximum benefit from the sunnah does not entail going to extremes. In fact the Prophet warned us against extremes. The sunnah does not say women can not be leaders in da'wah organizations and the like and in fact is specifically in the context of a nation- this extra little bit is your own innovation.

And I am remotely in charge or an organization and I do call people to truth alhamdulillah. I, nor anyone I know, sees a problem in my abilities to lead and I certainly to not cower under pressure, etc. I've had men (and no they are not "progressive" Muslims ask me to lead and help out in organizations.

Our MSA, like countless other MSA's have far been more successful with the women. I've seen with my own eyes when the boys of MSA are left to themselves and I will say the outcome was not good.

on October 23, 2005 6:35 PM
asef said

Salaam:

"This is less about women leading a da'wah organization and more about what a leader of a da'wah organization should be doing."

Hmmm...if this is reason for your article, Br Gillette, then I dont have to add anything here...

Needless to say, Sister Salika capable response should suffice for what you guys are discussing.

And really...are these issues of female leadership plaguing ISRU or other MSAs in NJ? Also, whats with Hidaya not part of ISRU? Man, you guys have way too much politics going on in NJ? Give yourself a break!

Ma'Assalaama

on October 23, 2005 6:55 PM
correction offered said

okay if this is talking about da'wah organization or what not or MSA pres,
I am not gonna go there.
but sister listed examples, of Umm Salamah, that was shuraa of the Prophet SAW with his wife, any leader can consult his wife's opinion on a matter and that was not leadership but rather consultation.

As far as Aisha(RA) is concerned, her joining the battle was seen as a mistake on her part, not a leadership score so to speak. It was a sad part of Muslim history.
Yes, women have been lecturers, scholars, teachers, soldiers, offcourse women can play these roles.

But as far as leading a nation is concerned, this is a job for a man and if there are no qualified men left then it is a shame upon the men and no fault of the women.

So if you boys dont like women leading stuff, then please growup and act like men. be mature, educated, islamic enough to lead so that there are no loopholes for women to come in and help out.

Offcourse, it is the duty of muslim women to help out if the job is not being done. But remember the PRIMARY duty is that of men and if it is not being fulfilled then I just say shame on those men.

And to the comment about kind treatment of women, yes in Islam women are to be treated kindly by the men folk.

However, that hadith quoted," Paradise lies"
is actually a weak hadith, ;)

on October 23, 2005 8:34 PM
content said

As was said earlier, the things said here could easily be applied to men as well. I am sure that it was not the brother's intention to polemicize, but the article comes off a bit harsh on women and criticizes them on multiple fronts.

As for women leadership,I feel that truly modest women would not want to be leaders. Ask most men if they would vote for a women president and the vast majority will tell you they would not. Call it what you will..

And lastly, woman was created for the good of man, each taking comfort in the other..

on October 23, 2005 11:46 PM
jinnzaman said

Bismillah.

Assalamu alaikum

I just wanted to point out that in the Maturidi madhab, females may also have been Prophets.

Also, there is ikhtilaaf on whether or not women can be leaders below the position of khalifah.

This is a fiqh issue.

So lets let the fuqaha speak and not those who aren't qualified to issue fatawa.

In other words, lets shut the "fiqh" up.

masalama

on October 23, 2005 11:46 PM
asef said

Salaam:

Seems like a lot of new contributors have come on Hidaya, like Jinnzamaan and Salika...Masha'Allah, this is a good thing.

hehehehe...I liked this comment "But as far as leading a nation is concerned, this is a job for a man and if there are no qualified men left then it is a shame upon the men and no fault of the women"

What is a Maturidi Madhab? Is this considered part of Ahley-Sunnah-Wal-Jamaah? Never heard this madhab before.

Ma'Assalaama

on October 24, 2005 6:29 AM
holla said

motha fuqahas!

on October 24, 2005 12:19 PM
gillette said

the concept of a da'wah organization itself is a new concept that's alien to the sunnah, only because the khilaafah served as a da'wah organization. in cases where things didn't exist and they do exist now, we defer to qualified scholars for their qiyaas and ijtihaad.

on October 24, 2005 2:30 PM
akhlaq said

the concept of giving dawah, however is not new; but i believe your method of giving dawah (or hidaya) is 'alien to the sunnah' as it was put.

(the method can stay the same, if the goal is the same)

inshaAllah i hope this post does not cause offense, as it was not meant to do that. May Allah (swt) guide us all, myself included. Ameen.

*In all honesty, I shudder to think of the struggling muslim - trying to better himself; and then getting scared off by bad dawah through bad akhlaq.

on October 24, 2005 3:28 PM
gillette said

1) Advice given anonymously is never recieved very well (particularly by me)

2) "the concept of giving dawah, however is not new; but i believe your method of giving dawah (or hidaya) is 'alien to the sunnah' as it was put."

"I think you think I'm addressing people who disagree with me. Rather, I usually address people who agree with me, and I just frame it in a different light."

on October 24, 2005 3:45 PM
jinnzaman said

Ok, its official. I have no idea whats going on.

I agree with the message of the author, but not necessarily with the way he delivered it.

on October 24, 2005 3:55 PM
Donald Duck said

Salamualaikum Wa Rahmatullah,

Br. Hasan I know you didnt intend to direct the poem to any particular sister. U know lot of people read Hidaya, so lets give gentle Hidaya, ans sometimes you can spit some fire. But please mix it up son.

Another thing, can we get Hidayaonline.com affiliated with ISRU again. You wouldnt know how much easier it would have been for us to raise funds using for the earthquake fund relief Arab vs. Rest of the World football match, if we were using Hidaya's resources. But nonetheless, thanks to Allah Talah it was a heck of a game.

JazakAllah Khair

on October 24, 2005 4:44 PM
asef said

Salaam:

"...Arab vs. Rest of the World football match..."

Whoa!

Who won? I can comfortably say it would have to be the Arab team.

Next time when you have a similar match again, get the Nigerians and the West African Brothers in the "rest of the world" team. Also, dont forget the Turkish and Iranian students. And retain the Desi brothers as Bench Warmers!

Maybe in the next ISRU movie, you guys can cover a similar footbal match (sports activity) that goes towards raising funds, Insha'Allah.

Just my 0.02

Ma'Assalaama

on October 24, 2005 5:02 PM
Justoju said

Just wanna say "ahlan wa sahlan"/"khushaam deed" to all the newcomers. Welcome to HidayaOnline. We pray your stay is long and fruitful inshaAllah. Feel free to post any and all comments and please definitely feel free to contribute any articles that you have authored that would be of benefit to us.

p.s. The maturidi madhab is a valid madhab of aqeedah and has been part of ahlus sunnah wal jamaa' for 1400 years. The VAST majority of hanafis are maturidis in their aqeedah. You have most likely been taught maturidi aqeedah as a default.

on October 24, 2005 5:32 PM
Donald Duck said

Salamualaikum Wa Rahmatullah,
Nice to see you so excited br. Asef. Alhamdulillah. we the Rest of the World did very well without Nigerians , Turks , Iranians or anyone outside the sub continent. Yes, the Desi brothers played well Alhamdulillah. I hope we can start to revive everyone's stereotypical views on the athletic (and other) abilities of us Desis. We dont need no Iranian or Turk to help us out InshAllah.

I hope people stop the underestimating certain Muslim brothers of a certain race, wake up and smell the coffee. We all belong to the race of Adam(AS). If you cant accept it, please talk to Rami and he'll tell you what 's the Islamic view on racism.

Jazak Allah Khair

on October 24, 2005 5:53 PM
Donald Duck said

Salamualaikum Wa Rahmatullah,
Br. Asef your comment on Desi brothers being bench warmers is daef. Real daef. You were comfortably wrong about the Arab brothers winning.

on October 24, 2005 6:01 PM
asef said

Salaam:

hahahaha...I am desi myself but I score an average of 2 goals per soccer game....the reason why I suggested brothers of other nationalities is because Soccer is not the staple game for desi brothers (generally speaking)...Conversely, if ISRU had a Cricket match then the teams would have been "Desis vs the rest of the World"....

So my comments were relative to the popularity of a certain game as cherished in different parts of the globe...there is nothing more tangible in my earlier comments.

I hope this clarifies the situation, Insha'Allah.

Ma'Assalaama

on October 24, 2005 6:16 PM
Justoju (scoring points with the hubby) said

My husband plays soccer (or football as he calls it) twice a week, during ALL seasons, and he is ammmaaazzziiinngg on the field mashaAllah...AND he is desi...

...but then I think his soccer skills might be more of a british thing than a desi thing.

on October 24, 2005 6:30 PM
akhlaq said

"I think you think I'm addressing people who disagree with me. Rather, I usually address people who agree with me, and I just frame it in a different light."

...I don't usually see you mention your intended audience when you usually address people who agree with you...how do you insure that this is done? (just wondering...)

on October 24, 2005 6:46 PM
akhlaq said

I mean like, before people get upset (not in the comments section)

on October 24, 2005 6:48 PM
Donald Duck said

Salamualaikum,
it was American football . Sorry to confuse you br. Asef and sister Justojo.
Talk to u guys later InshAllah, Chow,
Salamualaikum

on October 24, 2005 8:44 PM
akhlaq said

forgive me if i have been rude or have angered anyone while fasting.

making my comments un-anonomously wouldn't really help by the way. You people have no idea who i am. I do not attend Rutgers University

on October 24, 2005 8:48 PM
Donald Duck said

Salamualaikum,
Br. Asef I hope you accept my apologies. I had gravely misunderstood you and I am sorry for that. Its sad that people like me get over the edge while they are fasting. But I am a son of Adam, and i do forget. In this month of mercy, please forgive a younger brother (I m assuming that i m alot younger than you).

Salamualaikum.

on October 24, 2005 11:11 PM
jinnzaman said

Desis sm-esis.

No one can beat me at lemonade tycoon.

Or starcraft.

Or any other strategy games.

on October 24, 2005 11:19 PM
Ibtisam said

yeah, I lost track of all the comments and themes being discussed, way too convulated for me to comprehend.
can the editors please email me about article submission and correction? would much appreciate it, thanks.

on October 24, 2005 11:26 PM
asef said

Salaam:

Akhi Donald, I did not get offended at all. At my age, I dont even register most what other say about me :)

Rather I should apologize for being the reason for your anger...I dont know what I was thinking when I started blabbering about soccer when you were actually talking about football.

In any case I hope that you forgive me as well for my short coming, Insha'Allah.

Ma'Assalaama

on October 25, 2005 2:32 AM
kulthum said

It sorta doesnt matter whether the original post is "wrong" or "right" because the way it was written was very attacking. maybe because i'm a female. But. most definatly, those are amazing qualities that women and men should struggle to achieve......inshaAllah, when brothers actually step up to their place in society, we can start make rules and regulations for women to be ameerat.

side note: maybe in your little msa brothers do step up to the responsibilities, but try...just TRY...to take this to an msa where there are muslim brothers still trying to figure out their identity, while the muslim sisters with hijab that are confident enough to walk thru a university campus without being embarressed of their religion. This issue has to do with the structure of Islam in America and if you want, you can point out the minor things such as sister msa presidents and ignore the major things such as muslim guys having illegitamate children and drinking. THats...why sometimes sisters have to step up and take the place of a man. and believe me, from personal experience, its not easy. whatsoever. we dont want to take men's place in society. because it is not meant for us. So please instead of writing an article about women being ameerat, write one about how brothers are lacking in their responsibilties that unqualified sisters are forced to take.

another side note: sometimes sisters are more qualified than brothers btw. and vice versa. AND...different msa's can have different goals, you dont need to be a scholar or shaykh or even an imam to be msa president.

Sorry for the rant
wsalam

on October 26, 2005 10:03 AM
Mohammed Irfan Shariff said

ummm welll

I love Gilette

but i'll be straight he was a little bit too harsh
i mean come on man

how to meet women at isru?
umm callin sisters?
non stop?

bro seriously begin with putting the brothers in check. Leave off on the sisters.... what about the brothers and all thier faults.

And by the way this was not "genius" instead it was the truth given in a sour light....

on October 26, 2005 4:05 PM
gillette said

TIMES THAT I'VE CRITICIZED BROTHERS:

This Place (brothers are criticized more than sisters in this).
My Eman
Then & Now
With Muslims Like These, Who Needs Kaafirs? - Part 2
Blind Tawakkul
The Absurdity of The Passion
Women: Never Sell Products Without Them
The New and Improved Islamic Organization
Imam Abdullah
How Should I Lower My Gaze?
Islamic vs. Islam-first
My Eman, v. 2.0
How To Meet Women At ISRU, Part 1
Not Again
Vive La Difference!
surrender?
it weighs heavily
crax in the wall
sometimes
good riddance
The Great Argument/Debate
HidayaOnline.com, Darul Ifta
The Weakest of Faith
Kashful Flirting
UIO: At It Again
Benefitting from Knowledge
Abdullah's Sectarian Radar is Thrown for a Loop...
How to Become a Scholar
Ahzab (Act I)
Ahzab (Act II)

All can be found here:
http://www.hidayaonline.com/archives/cat_fire.html

30 out of 49 articles. In other words, contrary to ill-informed opinions, I do criticize brothers (including myself) and have used most of my articles to do so.

The remainder have either been used to criticize sisters or no one.

on October 26, 2005 8:41 PM
Donald Duck said

thats right Gillette, tell him how its done .

Brothers and sisters, look around you. Materialism, its like a sick disease. Our nafs desire this and that and so on and so on till we become so blinded that Jim Morrison high on ..... looks more sensible. its all bout the bling bling bling bling. May Allah Talah Guide us to the straight and good path. Ameen
Salamualaikum Wa Rahmatullah

on October 26, 2005 11:11 PM
GI-57 said

KAJA-MANAJA......... has become

THE KAJUNGLI-MANUNGLI


on November 6, 2005 8:12 PM
brother-bruce said

as entertaining as the comments on this site usually are, it would be nice to get rid of the spam.

and no, i dont mean the ones posted by 'asef'.


j/k :P

on September 17, 2006 8:23 PM
asef said

Salaam:

"as entertaining as the comments on this site usually are, it would be nice to get rid of the spam.

and no, i dont mean the ones posted by 'asef'."

hahahahahaha...spam...hahahahahahah

that reminds me...fighting against spam is a never ending battle...each day the net is evolving...each day s spammer will create new codes to evade any kind of security that can be set on a blogger site...so I think what we need is more "spams/comments" from the readers so that the actual spams will be lesser in count.

By the way...Its all good!

on September 18, 2006 12:45 AM
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